I have always said that appearing on podcasts is a gateway drug that eventually leads to launching your own podcast. In our last episode where I outlined the different ways you can get support for pitching, I figured it’s only right to apply that same method of thinking to a podcast you host. Today, I share all the ways to get podcast production support.
If you’re thinking about launching your own show, all the things that you don’t know can be pretty overwhelming. How do I know this? Friends, I’ve been there.
I talk through all the steps it took to get this podcast launched, including all of the tasks you might want to consider outsourcing. I also include a behind-the-scenes peek at how we put this show together, tips on where you can find help, as well as showing how membership of The Podwize Co-Op could be all the podcast production support that you need to launch your own podcast in 2022.
Ways to Get Podcast Production Support
Topics covered include:
- How my 2022 goal for the Go Pitch Yourself podcast is going – and how you can still help
- My experiences launching this podcast in 2019
- The different areas where you might need help
- Definitions of some of the support roles that people talk about!
- The workflow my team and I use for solo and guest episodes
- How the podcast production support within The Podwize Co-Op could help you to launch your podcast
So, having listened to this episode, what parts of your own podcast production are you going to outsource? Let me know on IG @thepodwizegroup.
And if you have a question you’d like me to tackle on an upcoming show, record a message at speakpipe.com/GPY.
The Podwize Group’s resources mentioned in this episode:
- Join the Podwize Group email list and get your copy of Podcast Pitches That Convert at thepodwizegroup.com/pitches
- Learn more about The Podwize Group’s services
- Follow The Podwize Group on Instagram
Podcasts mentioned in this episode:
Other resources mentioned in this episode:
- Buy NPR’s Podcast Start Up Guide: Create, Launch, and Grow a Podcast on any Budget by Glen Weldon
- Visit Deanna Seymour
Now it’s time for you to get out there and Go Pitch Yourself! Can’t wait to connect again!
Interested in connecting with other entrepreneurs who are using podcasts to grow their business?
Follow & Review in Apple Podcasts
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And, if you are SUPER pumped about the show, I would be so thankful if you would pop over to Apple Podcasts and leave a review. Crazy enough, reviews help other folks find my podcast and they help me get a real sense of what you love about the show. Simply select “Ratings and Reviews” and “Write a Review” and let me know what your favorite part of the podcast is. Much love, friend.
Special thanks to Steve Woodward at PodcastingEditor.com for handling all the behind-the-scenes tech pieces of production.
Transcript for Ways to Get Podcast Production Support
Angie Trueblood: Do you have ‘Launch a podcast on your 2022 To Do List?’ Do you also have, ‘Get someone to help me launch said podcast on your to do list?’ Whether you are launching your show for the first time or have finally decided to offload some of your podcast related to do’s you will walk away from this episode with clarity on the types of support you can get. And it might not be as overwhelming as you think.
Hey there pitches! Welcome to the Go Pitch Yourself podcast with me, Angie Trueblood, a self-proclaimed podcast junkie. I’m on a mission to rid the world of the crappy pitches that are filling up inboxes everywhere. Want to help? Then let’s get pitching!
Angie Trueblood: Alright friends, welcome to another episode of Go Pitch Yourself. I am very excited to be offering you a bit of a follow up on the most recent episode, Episode 63, which is where I chatted with you about the different ways that you can get support in your podcast pitching. I thought tackling that topic as it pertains to podcast production could also be helpful as I know many of you either host your own show or you have thoughts of hosting your own show. So as we have rebranded to The Podwize Group, we now support people on both sides of the microphone both as a guest and a host. And I really wanted to lean into that with this episode.
Before we get into the meat and potatoes of the episode, I did want to follow up with you on the plan that I shared with you on last week’s episode, all about my intention to double my downloads in 2022. So I’m really going to be calculating it on a quarterly basis. But I want to kind of stair-step my way into doubling my downloads. And the first step in that is getting towards 1200 in the first month of the year. So I really want to average about 1200 downloads per month in q1. And after last week’s episode, I went back and I looked at some of the numbers.
And when I say last week, you know, I mean last every other week, because I’m on an every other week Production Schedule, which I’m a big advocate for. So I went back and I looked, and we’re on to a good start. So the first episode that I released back in January of 2021, compared to the episode that I released on January 4 of 2022 was significantly smaller in terms of downloads. So we had about a 75% increase in the number of downloads last January versus this January, as it relates to that first episode that we released. So I feel very pumped about that. I’m very hopeful that we are moving in the right direction.
Now, we could go on about but it’s probably a conversation for you and I to have a cocktail over. But I think it kind of stems from a previous job that I had, and how they set goals for us. So I’ve never been one. My goal has always been just general growth, which I also recognize is slightly unhealthy. But for the podcast, really putting a number on it and being able to look at that week on week, month on month quarter on quarter I think is going to be really helpful in terms of me prioritizing what I am delivering to you every time I hit record. So for that I thank you for being a witness to it.
One thing I did think of though, in between last week’s episode going live and recording this one is that I often do batch record episodes. And so it will be really hard to give you sort of a live update in real-time on the episodes that I release, so what I would recommend to you, I will be updating the folks on my email list on a regular basis of how I’m trending towards that doubling of the downloads and the strategies that I perceive as working. So if you are not on my email list, I would recommend that you go hop over and join it as a free bonus.
You can get a copy of the current download freebie that I have which is pitches that convert. So it’s me really going over the primary parts of any great pitch and then sharing several examples of pitches that we have sent, either I sent on my own behalf or on behalf of clients that were actually accepted. So you can see real pitches.
So in order to get that just go to thepodwizegroup.com/pitches, that’s podwize with a Z, and pitches with a P. So go over and snag that to make sure that you get on our email list. I do not abuse the privilege of being in your email, I send an email every week that a show goes live. And then whenever I’m in a launch period, or have something very specific to share with you. So just as a heads up there.
The other thing that I wanted to share with you as a recap from last week, too, is how can you play a part? If you’re really pumped about this whole idea of Angie doubling the downloads? How can you support me in doing that right now, what I am asking are two things. This may change as time goes on, I’m sure I’m going to try out some different strategies. The first is to rate and review the Go Pitch Yourself podcast. So if you haven’t done that already, I would ask you, wherever you’re listening to this show, look in that player, and there will be a place for you to rate and review it and leave that information for me and for others so that when folks discover the show, they know exactly what to expect, and why you show up to listen every other week. And then secondly, if you’ve already done that, or if you really want to be an overachiever, then one strategy that I particularly love, I know I share podcasts with my friends all the time, is share this show with one specific friend. So legit screenshot wherever you are listening to this and text it to a friend of yours that you know could benefit from either an increase in visibility or a little bit of accountability as they are stepping into podcasting a little more fully this year, just send it to them, you can also just copy the link I’ve done this before, is I’ll copy the link on my player and then pop over to Voxer and send it to a friend of mine, let them know a show that I think would be great for them to listen to. So that’s my ask of you, if you are looking to support me in growing the downloads of go pitch yourself. Alright, let’s get into it. So again, we are chatting all about how to get support and producing your own podcast. And one thing, I likely know that many of us need that help for two reasons, one for personal experience.
So this podcast launched back in September of 2019. Truth be told, I recorded several episodes, including three interviews in March of 2019, I had full intention of launching, go pitch yourself on my own. And again, if you do the math, it didn’t launch until September. And that was because I had the best intent to really learn everything there is to learn about podcasting, all the new how-tos, the things I didn’t know how to do. And to really get that rolling, and it just didn’t happen. I wasn’t able to find the time in my day and prioritize that enough to make it happen. As much as I wanted to get a podcast out into the world, I was not able to do that on my own at the space that we were in business with the client load that we had, it just wasn’t a great fit. So that’s my personal experience. That’s one reason I know you likely are looking for some sort of help.
Number two, and this is really the difference between people who are open to getting help in their podcast pitching versus getting help with podcast production. The thing is, when it comes to getting support with podcast production, I think people are more open to it. Because there are legitimate things that you don’t know how to do with regard to audio and production, right. When it comes to podcasts pitching you think well, I know how to write an email. I know how to find a podcast because I do that every day. When I listen to podcasts. It’s far more obvious when we look at how to use podcast production to recognize that we don’t actually know how to do those things, right? When I recorded the episodes. Yeah, it was pretty easy for me to figure out how to record. I didn’t know how to edit, and I knew I didn’t know how to edit. I also didn’t know what type of audio I should be recording. I knew that a lot of people recorded on Zoom. But when I googled that or looked on YouTube, that didn’t really seem to be the way that most sort of legit podcasters were recommending that you record audio So it was very clear to me that I did not know how to do many of the things that are needed.
So the good news is there are incredibly helpful online tutorials. And that’s really what I thought was going to get me through, was going to YouTube. Pat Flynn has an incredible series. And I don’t really think it’s that outdated, I think he’s gone back in and updated it. So if that’s something that you’re looking to do, you’re looking to do the whole DIY for your podcast, Pat, Flynn’s a great resource. And actually, Buzzsprout, which is a hosting platform that has incredible tutorials on creating a show they’ve got templates, I highly recommend you looking at Buzzsprout, both as a hosting platform and for their tutorials. And I will say these tutorials are so rock solid, that we’ve actually made the decision inside of the pod wise Co Op to not really have me recreate the wheel and create editing tutorials, which would be crazy. If you think about it, I don’t edit my own podcasts, why would I create a tutorial inside of our membership to show you how to edit? No, we link to a lot of really great tutorials, we’ve gotten some from members of the co-op who have offered for us to put some of their content inside of it. But I am a big advocate of there’s a ton of really solid content out there for you. So that is the good news. If you have your own show, or you’re thinking of starting your own show, lots of resources are out there. And as a plug for the Co Op, we do a really great job of rounding up some of the best ones. Okay, cool. So people are open to getting help when it comes to producing their podcast. But why don’t we actually do it? Why did it take me six months to hire this unicorn editor? Steve, that I talked about a lot. For me, it had a lot to do with the mindset, right? Like I had to get in a space where I was able to prioritize and devote the time that I knew it would take to one find out who I needed to hire,
What did I need them to do? And then find someone right there is a piece of the puzzle when you’re looking to hire a view having to wade through applicants and interview people. All of that just seemed a bit overwhelming to me. So I didn’t do it. Until I really got down to the wire and was convinced that if I didn’t get help, I would never launch the show. So I think honestly, for getting support in podcast production, that’s one of the biggest challenges is one, we kind of do what I did. We say I’m going to figure out how to do this on my own. We kind of ride that wave for a couple of months. Recognize, yeah, no, I’m not going to figure this all out on my own. And now I need to hire. And then it’s really getting over that hump and really pulling the trigger to do it. So if you have had on your to do list, I’m going to launch a podcast for a really long time and you just haven’t done it. I would try to peel back the layers of that onion and figure out why haven’t I? Is it that I need help? Is it that I’ve convinced myself I’m going to do it all but I legitimately don’t have the time? Is it something different? Are you scared of putting your voice out there and really wondering if you have enough expertise to be producing a show every week or every other week? Right?
Maybe sometimes that timeline, the idea of hosting a show every week, it’s super overwhelming, you’re not quite sure you’ll have enough content. It can be all of those things, but you really need to dig into it and figure it out to move forward, especially if it’s been on your list for a long time. So let’s assume you’ve navigated through that, you know what’s holding you back, and you’re recognizing, okay, I think I might want to get some support. But again, you have no idea what you would call the person who is going to be supporting you, you don’t really know where to find them. We’re going to break that down in this episode, because I do think it can be really overwhelming to understand exactly who it is that you need to make this part of your business run more smoothly.
So first things first, let’s chat through some of the biggest terms that I hear people referring to kind of support as, and that’s the whole idea of a Podcast Producer versus a podcast manager versus a podcast editor. I will say in the online space, I see these used interchangeably all the time, but they shouldn’t be and so getting clarity on what you need help with in your business is going to make all of the difference. So I had a bit of an aha moment. A couple of weeks ago, I was reading NPRs podcast startup guide by Glen Walden. It’s an incredible read, quick, easy to get through. And there was an entire chapter dedicated to mixing. And that has to do with taking the audio after you’ve recorded, and maybe mixing up the order that you are going to share an interview in write, maybe you had a guest who really went off the rails, and there was great content, but it needed to be rearranged so that the listener had a really solid experience. Well, that was eye opening to me, because I thought about man, that is like, totally someone in your podcast, doing a lot of the creative and strategic work.
Now, Steve, who is listening, and editing is an incredible editor, and actually gives me some really great feedback on the show. But he is not necessarily proactively rearranging the interviews, right? He’ll cut out pieces. And if I suggest, you know, hey, this part that she talked about, I don’t want to hear that at all, or hey, can you move this part to the beginning, I’ll totally do it. But in terms of the normal flow of how we work together, he is not reconfiguring and reordering episodes as he gets the audio. So the aha for me was some of these shows, and PR shows, for example, are ones that are hosted by really big networks who have whole production teams, they’re doing a whole lot more producing than what some of us in the business space, who are running our own shows, are actually doing. And so I think that’s, for me, recognizing that an actual Podcast Producer, is someone who is really ingrained in the strategy, the creative direction, the types of guests that you might want to have on your show, producers, honestly, should be really involved in those pieces. In the most traditional sense of the word, right, they oversee the whole kit and caboodle. And they have a lot of strategic input. In the episodes, that’s not exactly what I see, especially in the online space, I often see the terms Podcast Producer and podcast manager used interchangeably, and they actually mean more of playing the role of a project manager in a lot of instances, right. So it’s really the person who helps keep the wheels on the show getting published. And they might do some other tasks, right, they might be editing the show, they might be overseeing the editing, they might be doing quality control on the graphics. But in general, they’re making sure that all the parts of you are recording audio, getting that audio edited, uploaded, often with some sort of marketing asset. That’s really what the producer-slash-manager is in charge of, if you’re talking about bigger shows, the producer does a lot more in terms of a lot of times the producers will actually be listening and on the recording live. So they will be live listening as the shows are being recorded. That’s really not with anyone in the space that we work in in terms of like the podcast pitching and the online business space, I’m not seeing a lot of producers do that to be candid, let me know if you see otherwise. I sometimes see people posting that they really might want a manager or sharing that they want a manager and really what they want is an editor. So lots of differences there in terms of that terminology.
When we’re talking about full on podcast production and management, I mean, that is a big lift. And often I see that price anywhere between one to $2,000 per month, for either weekly or bi weekly shows. Again, that’s someone who is managing all of the different parts of getting that show published. And what normally happens is you as the host, record the episode, whether it’s a solo or an interview, you send it off to your producer, or your manager, and they handle all of the other parts. Now I will say with that there’s often not a ton of strategic support that’s included in that right, they might focus on growth a little bit, but that is not often what I am seeing the managers focused on they will sometimes give you reports on your downloads and ideas for growth, but they’re not really kind of in it with you and giving you all kinds of specific strategies to grow the show. They’re more responsible for making sure that the shows get published on time. All right.
So now let’s think about Hey Angie, I don’t really know if I want a full on Podcast Producer, I totally get that, or a podcast manager. I mean, candidly, I don’t have one, I have an editor and I have kind of pulled together different people on my team to do the job that they’re great at as it pertains to my podcast. If you are looking for more creative direction and strategic support, what I would honestly say is, you can either do that yourself, right, you can schedule a time for you to look at your stats and to kind of review your show the direction that you want to be going in. As another shameless plug for the pod wise, Co-Op, I say that’s also a place where you can fill that strategic support gap in having other people weigh in on your show. And you can check out all the details of the Co-Op, go to https://thepodwizegroup.com/coop. But there’s two specific parts of the Co-Op, that we have really seen so far that help people who are either launching their show or who host the one to one review to where you can actually submit something for feedback from me. And I record a loom video giving feedback on how I would optimize whatever it is that you are submitting, we’ve had folks submit their guest submission page. So they host a show, they’re going to have guests, and they want to create a forum where they’re able to collect the information that will help them make the most of it. That’s something that I’ve given feedback on for a member of the co-op.
We also have monthly roundtables, which are kind of like mini masterminds without the long term commitment to where you’re able to show up. And we segment these by topics. So we have a monthly roundtable for hosting where myself, and then we call them visiting professors. So someone who is an expert in podcast production, often their own production company, comes in. And we have other members of the group who are interested in hosting, they’re typically their hosts themselves. And we offer feedback and guidance on the show. So I think this is a really great way to fill in that strategic need that a lot of us have, right, and we’re just not getting it filled in some of the ways that we have support on our team. And you can get it in the co-op. An example is my friend Erin Olilla. She’s a member of the co-op. Her show, I believe, is launching today. I think as this episode goes live, the talk copy to me podcast is new and launching. Erin used the co-op through her whole launch process, we chatted through her show’s name, the format of it, is it going to be solo, is it going to be an interview, we talked about her publishing schedule, she ended up hiring another member of the co-op to design her cover art, Deanna Seymour, who is amazing.
I also hired Deanna to rebrand our show cover art, as you can see, but the beauty is that all of this happened inside of the co-op and she was really able to lean on the community and the expertise inside of it to have a show that is now live. So definitely go listen to the Talk Copy To Me podcast by Erin Olilla. Alright, so that’s sort of like the strategic creative direction, like where do you get support on that my vote is the co-op. But let’s keep going because there’s other parts of podcast production that you can likely get supported. So one is project management. So again, if you hire a project manager, they are going to handle all of it. But sometimes you can pinch it with software. That’s what I do. So I don’t have a full on project manager. But we use tools in house that help us get all of the parts of the podcast done. So for solo shows, we use Google Drive and email, it’s super fancy, I upload the audio into Google Drive, Steve is able to pull it from there. He does the audio editing, gets it back to myself, and then another member of the team Tasia, where we kind of take it from there and create the marketing assets, the show notes and all of that good stuff. So that’s one thing for solo shows, you typically can handle the project management on your own. But you do need to create the workflows so that you’re not recreating the wheel and reinventing that workflow every single time. Let’s say you have an interview show well, similar. We still use Google Drive. We still use email, right? Because we’ve got all the audio that still needs to be edited. Steve does draft up the show notes and puts those into that Google Drive. But for interview shows, we need to schedule our guests, we need to invite them and then we need to have a series of emails that go out to our guests. So that’s where we use click up and dubsado together to manage where our guests are in the process? Right?
Where are these shows? What do we need to get to them? What do we need to collect from them? And then we use dubsado, for the automated emails that go out to them.
So you can totally manage that part of project management with software. We have our admin, my right-hand lady Courtney. She’s our executive assistant, and she does a lot of the administrative pieces of the project management. So she’s able to manage the moving pieces that we have, because we publish every other week, it is not a high demand part of our business, we’re able to have me record and we kind of have a break like we’ll have one week that is a bit more intense of getting deliverables out. And then the off week, and that off week tends to be when I do the bulk of my own recording, the one thing I will say for project management is you are going to want to figure out a way to accept guest submissions. So we had Courtney, our administrative guru, handle that in the beginning, until we started to get overwhelmed by them coming through email. So now we have created a form right, as you launch your podcast and as your podcast grows, you’re likely going to want to audit some of the systems that you have in place and sort of up level them.
As you start to get either more numbers or more volume coming into your inbox or whatever it is. So we now have a form on our website that accepts guest submissions. The other option, which I don’t recommend, just because of my job is you could turn them down completely, you could be one of those shows that just sources your own guest from your own network. Totally up to you. But I would just say, as you navigate your podcast growth, you’re going to want to look at your systems and see which ones need to be adjusted as you grow. Next, and this is one of those how to’s that you likely don’t know how to and that is audio editing. This is the one where I am such a huge advocate of outsourcing this piece of your podcasts production because the amount of time it takes to edit well, and to sort of have the ear for sound is likely not worth it if you’re already running a successful business. So the editor legitimately edits the sound. So as an example, the audio that I’m sending Steve for this episode has a number of spots in it, where I say no Steve, ignore that completely put this in, right, so I’m actually giving a bit of direction on the audio file. And he needs to edit that out and make it sound seamless. He also navigates some of the weird sounds that have popped up in different recording softwares that I have used. And he knows how to listen for that and how to correct it. And I would have no idea how to do it.
So I highly recommend hiring a person to your editing, it’s very affordable compared to the amount of time it would take you to learn and actually do the editing. Now there are a couple of programs out on the market that are starting to offer editing in more of an automated way. I know D script is one that I have friends who use that I haven’t looked into it too closely. But what I will say about these programs that are more automated and artificial intelligence is I think there’s a real benefit to having the ear of an actual human on your show. Because it’s really easy for us to record and go along and do our thing. But it’s great to get feedback from someone else who listens and has opinions and thoughts before that episode goes live. So my vote, especially for the time being and for any amount of time that I can first see in the future, is get another human involved in your podcast who is listening and editing.
Alright, a couple of other things that might fall into the space of an administrative person, maybe a virtual assistant on your team would be graphics, right, you’re going to likely want to create some sort of social graphics that podcast cover art, audio grams, I would say my caveat here would be one really intentional with the spaces that you plan to show up. You don’t necessarily need to plan that you are going to market your Show on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn and Pinterest from the get go right figure out the space where it makes sense for you to show up, create graphics for that spot.
I would also highly recommend you create a template bank for show graphics so that you’re not recreating a graphic from the ground up every single episode. And I also highly recommend that if you suck at creating graphics, which I admittedly do, especially when it comes to podcast stuff for some reason. So, get help, have someone come in and create the templates that you are going to use for your graphics.
Have someone create your podcast cover art, I mean, that is a really big piece of branding and it sticks with you for a while. I just changed the cover art. And it’s been over two years since this show has been live. So I really recommend bringing someone in for the graphics that are going to be around for the long term, right, get help from the get go so that you again don’t have to recreate every time you have an episode go live. A couple more things to think about admin. I’ve mentioned that before. But there is some back and forth with email.
When you’re scheduling interviews, you need to actually have a calendar that is updated, likely a form attached to it, where your guests can fill it out and give you the information that you need before you hit record, then you’re going to have information that you’re going to want to share with those guests after you’ve recorded before the interview goes live. So that they can share, maybe you want to give them an audiogram so that they can share it on Instagram. Either you’re going to be the one sending it or you’re going to have someone on your team doing it. So make sure that you have someone to fill in for some of these tasks, or commit yourself to being the one that does it.
A little asterisk here for you is you may want to get a couple of episodes under your belt so that you can see where the sticking points are for you. It’s kind of like I’ve had friends before when we buy houses. And the whole idea of living in a house before you make a ton of changes to it, I think is really important. So I love the idea of if you are going to go the route of getting some support, but not outsourcing to a full fledged podcast manager or producer, then navigate a couple of these shows on your own in terms of some of the admin stuff that you can do. And then see where you think you want to uplevel and plug in support for those pieces. Other things that you’re probably going to want to get support with or at least consider is having someone draft out your show notes, and hopefully put an SEO spin on them, right, we want to optimize for SEO whenever we can. If you’re great at that, awesome. If you’re clueless about that, then you’re probably gonna want to plug somebody in to either do your show notes, writing or at least do some sort of SEO strategy to give you a bit of a framework to work around as you are writing show notes and uploading to the blog site on your website.
And then finally, social, if you are going to be the one sharing social cool, you don’t need support, but you could loop someone on your team. And if they’re already posting on social media and kind of managing that part of your business, they could be the ones to share the episodes on social media, just make sure that you are keeping an eye on the engagement there. What I see a lot of people do. And I mentioned this before in Episode 63 is I’ve seen people who will put a post about a new episode on Instagram. And likely the number of clicks for people to pop over and listen to that are probably really low. So just make sure if you’ve got someone handling social media for you as it pertains to your podcast, make sure that you’re getting the results that you would expect, make sure that you’re seeing some growth, the days that you post on social media that people are actually going and listening to your podcast. If that’s not the case, that’s fine. It doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t share it on social media, but maybe you should readjust your goals. Maybe you don’t use your podcast graphics to increase downloads on your podcast, but you produce it as a bit of content that is more standalone inside Instagram as an example. So that you can grow your engagement on that platform, just a thought. But definitely, if you’re hiring someone to do parts of this, make sure that you know what your goal is with them getting support, is it just to take it off of your plate? At which point that’s fine, but also how is this going to impact your business? Keep that front of mind not only with how you’re leveraging podcasts, but just in general business.
Alright, so that was a lot. I hope it did give you a little bit of clarity on the places where you can get support with podcasting, and how you do not have to be in charge of the entire thing on your own. Just because you’re not hiring a manager per se. So I want to know, just like I did in episode 63. What is it that you are going to look at outsourcing first? Are you going to outsource the whole thing at which point Hurrah for you, hurray, hurray, or are you going to pick a couple of the admin tasks that you think you can easily get off of your plate and have someone else handle it in a more organized fashion. Knowing what you are going to outsource helps me to know what other types of content to share. So let a sister know what your plan is for your podcast and who is going to help you.
Alright friend, if you’re interested in getting that strategic support, you know that you can go to the Co-Op, https://thepodwizegroup.com/coop. And remember our call to action. The way that you can help me grow this podcast if you are interested, is to share this episode with one specific friend of yours. Alright, until next time, be well and be visible.
Alright, Steve, I’m giving it a f***ing go in GarageBand. [laughs] Okay, fingers crossed.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai